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16 thoughts on “Exploring the Historical Orgins of Adam and the Garden of Eden”
I’m not sure, but you may like to do a comparative analysis between Hinduism is to Buddhism and the old testament is to the new testament.
Given that Buddhism came about about 500bc ish and I’m sure that there was a bit of cross culture going on.
If you view the old testament in a dualism way and Buddhism in a ‘The kingdom of god is within’ way…. it make a nice foundation for a movement for social change and uprising.
As far as Buddhism cross pollination . Some say Jesus and Buddha were one in the same .I mean have you ever seen Jesus and Buddha in the same place at the same time ! ? 😉 And the Qur’an , mentions Jesus a couple dozen times .
I’ve been working on this also .Funny an atheist and an agnostic looking so deeply into religion 😉 Studies have shown this is the norm 😉
Ezekiel’s vision of a wheel within a wheel comes from earlier zodiac references . The heads of the beings are a reference to the elements earth , wind , fire , water and man .
The virgin birth goes back to Isis .
Almost every story and place in the bible or any other religion can be traced to an earlier separate source . People who believe in these myths . Don’t want to know the truth . Because if they knew the truth their assumptions and beliefs would vanish into ether .Poof ! No more Santa Claus ! ;-)You should post more articles about this . I’ll use them in my pearltrees.com account > Bookmarking site . In my “Religious Dissection Comparative study of religions” link album .
Pearltrees is an excellent site for research and stumbling across cool sites , info. I just started the religious album ( pearltree ) You can team-up on it if you like , you just press the “team up” button . It gives you direct access to that pearltree so you can add directly into it and edit it . Or you can create your own from scratch . Let me know if you create a new religious research pearltree , so I can keep track or join yours ;-0 All up to you of course ;-)But I think you’ll find mine interesting once it gets going 😉
Tip > You can type in any query into the Pearltree search engine upper left . To search in others pearls ( links ) or within your own pearltree ( bookmarks )
Just noticed your team up request . Request granted . Glad to have you on board ! Feel free to add links ( pearls ) to the “Religious Dissection Comparative study of religions” or edit it .or any other pearltree you want to team up on 😉 ( I trust your judgement .)If you have any questions feel free to ask . I’ll gladly help out.
I wonder sometimes, if we were originally some sort genetic engineering project, made in the image of god, gods are made by cutting a piece of them off, the greek god and chimeras of animal and human, sounds like cloning, genetic experiments….”Eating of the fruit of knowledge” is probably a gene therapy pill that makes you smarter, the actual “gods” being aliens or maybe us from the future, Stargate comes to mind, lol, but its probably just my overactive imagination…..should write a fictional story about it….
I wish I had known about the way religions inter-mesh when I was younger instead of slowly finding out on my own…It’s good that you help put it out there for people to find, thanx Xeno..
Or…the stories are all similar because there was an actual origin of mankind and various cultures all reinterpreted it, which . Which means that no culture would have to borrow from each other, they all have cultural memories of the same story. At which point, it just depends on which culture’s memory of it is most accurate. In fact, other cultures had somewhat similar creation stories to Genesis, as in this beginning to a Native American creation story: http://www.painsley.org.uk/re/signposts/y8/1-1creationandenvironment/c-amrind.htm
Thus, the only point that can be reasonably drawn here is that cultures all over the world share similar creation stories, so there will be different versions. It doesn’t mean that the cultures borrowed. The next question, an anthropological one, would be, why is the Hebrew origin story different? Why would they edit other legends so much? What is the function? In order to figure out who borrowed from whom (or, if any borrowing occurred), you have to figure out why one story is different from another.
And ‘knowledge of good and evil’ has nothing to do with sex. That Hebrew word for “knowledge” means: a) knowledge, perception, skill; b) discernment, understanding, wisdom. No sexual connotations, which makes it depart a bit from the Sumerian legends of the plants associated with sexuality.
I considered the idea that they all had a common source, but if you look at the actual details, at the content of the stories, the further back you go, the more they change. The stories become less and less like Genesis as you go back. The creator has a wife, the forbidden fruit becomes a sea weed, there are multiple gods, etc. If they all came from a common source, you’d expect the opposite.
And as to ‘knowledge of good and evil’, “know” is used very clearly in Genesis to mean sex:
Genesis 4:25 “And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth.”
Genesis 4:17
“And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he built a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.” – link
The word “yada” was used sometimes euphemistically for sex. One of the meanings is “to reveal oneself” as in showing your junk … and then using your junk … and then begetting sons and daughters.
I think xeno’s right about the sex thing . It’s pretty clear that it was the knowledge of sex ,that was what started the whole expulsion thing. I mean they covered themselves in disgrace ! Xeno why did you leave out Lilith ?
On the other hand what HopeF said would have to be addressed in full if one is to fully research this . Sounds like Xeno has 😉 I was aware of the issue but hadn’t worked on that angle yet , others have obviously . So far I’m with Xeno on this though . He stated it well .
But there are some stories that do seem to go back to a factual source . The flood seems to be based on fact but changed through time and religious source . Saying they didn’t borrow might be splitting hairs . But maybe we shouldn’t say borrowed ? Derived ? To be more fair .
Interesting post! I studied stuff like this in college, and while not a lot is fresh in my mind right now to add to the discussion, I do know that “creation myths” can be found all around the world, and though some are similar with common sources (as pointed out here) some are not. Zeus and Leda and a big egg come to mind. There’s one in Africa about the human race being born out of a log..I forget the details. Mircea Eliade is an author who did a lot of work in this area. In case you’re interested 🙂
Yes, too bad the three big religions you mentioned don’t seem to discuss openly their common ancestry so much. Probably scholars and others are quite aware of it just like some people are well aware of the origins of the Christmas tree and eggs and bunnies at Easter etc, but it’s just not relevant to their beliefs, I suppose.
Thanks for the tip ” Mircea Eliade” I’ll check that out ! I think as far as creation myths legends etc.. It is natural for mankind to wonder ” Where did we come from ? ” It is also natural for people to make things up 😉 Or even try to explain it to themselves or others through symbolism , representations and story . Other stories are based on actual events . One thing is clear is when people try to repeat what they saw or heard it becomes distorted . Even if they know what they saw . They put in their preconceptions and opinions and misunderstandings . No one is an accurate witness . This has been proven in criminal research . Witnesses are unreliable . Let alone a story passed down through centuries . A story passed from one person to the other in a circle often comes out the other side unrecognizable to the original story teller 😉 People general don’t want the mixed up origins about their spiritual beliefs. Changing the story is considered an assault to their soul ! Whether it is true or not . Religion doesn’t leave much room for an open mind ( as far as religious beliefs ) Once one believes something they resist changing that belief , religious or otherwise .
From what I understand about Mircea Eliade writings is . He felt that religion was a truth of human kinds existence . That religion is human kinds search for ” why are we here ? ” “what is life ?”etc.. Religion not only being the answer but being the only truth by it’s very nature . That myth some how always comes from some primordial reality . That the answer to all questions is the primordial root of myths . Religious experience from the original source . Where the origins of myth came from ;-/ I can understand where he’s coming from just not interested in where he’s going 😉 It does bring up some interesting notions though . But I think he way over reached . Not really the angle I was going for . He basically puts religion and myth above all other thought . In fact implies it is the only thought that matters . This implies an atheist or an agnostic are an unimportant misguided ball of fluff ! And that the religious are in tune with some sort of primordial , supernatural supremacy ! Tapping into the knowledge of the universe ! Wow what an extra special , highly functioning people we are surrounded by 😉 Who knew ? Apparently Mircea Eliade ! Who by association has arisen as the enlightened one 😉 Not that the core of what he was saying didn’t have merit . I just think he grabbed the ball ran with it and didn’t know when to stop to make the touch down ! 😉
Since the 1850s some Phd scholars have proposed that the Garden of Eden’s origins lie in recast Sumerian and Babylonian Myths. Recast in such a way as to _refute_ the Babylonian ideas about how man came to be created, denied knowledge like a god (as noted by Eden’s Serpent) and denied immortality. My website explores all this. I also have published two books on the subject available at Amazon.com (1) Eden’s Serpent: Its Mesopotamian Origins, (2) The Garden of Eden Myth: Its Pre-biblical Origin in Mesopotamian Myths.
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I’m not sure, but you may like to do a comparative analysis between Hinduism is to Buddhism and the old testament is to the new testament.
Given that Buddhism came about about 500bc ish and I’m sure that there was a bit of cross culture going on.
If you view the old testament in a dualism way and Buddhism in a ‘The kingdom of god is within’ way…. it make a nice foundation for a movement for social change and uprising.
I was wondering about Buddhism as I worked on this. How and when could there have been cross pollination?
As far as Buddhism cross pollination . Some say Jesus and Buddha were one in the same .I mean have you ever seen Jesus and Buddha in the same place at the same time ! ? 😉 And the Qur’an , mentions Jesus a couple dozen times .
I’ve been working on this also .Funny an atheist and an agnostic looking so deeply into religion 😉 Studies have shown this is the norm 😉
Ezekiel’s vision of a wheel within a wheel comes from earlier zodiac references . The heads of the beings are a reference to the elements earth , wind , fire , water and man .
The virgin birth goes back to Isis .
Almost every story and place in the bible or any other religion can be traced to an earlier separate source . People who believe in these myths . Don’t want to know the truth . Because if they knew the truth their assumptions and beliefs would vanish into ether .Poof ! No more Santa Claus ! ;-)You should post more articles about this . I’ll use them in my pearltrees.com account > Bookmarking site . In my “Religious Dissection Comparative study of religions” link album .
Thanks for the pearltrees tip. I joined up. Looks interesting.
Pearltrees is an excellent site for research and stumbling across cool sites , info. I just started the religious album ( pearltree ) You can team-up on it if you like , you just press the “team up” button . It gives you direct access to that pearltree so you can add directly into it and edit it . Or you can create your own from scratch . Let me know if you create a new religious research pearltree , so I can keep track or join yours ;-0 All up to you of course ;-)But I think you’ll find mine interesting once it gets going 😉
Tip > You can type in any query into the Pearltree search engine upper left . To search in others pearls ( links ) or within your own pearltree ( bookmarks )
Just noticed your team up request . Request granted . Glad to have you on board ! Feel free to add links ( pearls ) to the “Religious Dissection Comparative study of religions” or edit it .or any other pearltree you want to team up on 😉 ( I trust your judgement .)If you have any questions feel free to ask . I’ll gladly help out.
I wonder sometimes, if we were originally some sort genetic engineering project, made in the image of god, gods are made by cutting a piece of them off, the greek god and chimeras of animal and human, sounds like cloning, genetic experiments….”Eating of the fruit of knowledge” is probably a gene therapy pill that makes you smarter, the actual “gods” being aliens or maybe us from the future, Stargate comes to mind, lol, but its probably just my overactive imagination…..should write a fictional story about it….
I wish I had known about the way religions inter-mesh when I was younger instead of slowly finding out on my own…It’s good that you help put it out there for people to find, thanx Xeno..
Peace
As my old cockney mucker would say:
“Would you ‘Adam and Eve’ it?”
Or…the stories are all similar because there was an actual origin of mankind and various cultures all reinterpreted it, which . Which means that no culture would have to borrow from each other, they all have cultural memories of the same story. At which point, it just depends on which culture’s memory of it is most accurate. In fact, other cultures had somewhat similar creation stories to Genesis, as in this beginning to a Native American creation story: http://www.painsley.org.uk/re/signposts/y8/1-1creationandenvironment/c-amrind.htm
Thus, the only point that can be reasonably drawn here is that cultures all over the world share similar creation stories, so there will be different versions. It doesn’t mean that the cultures borrowed. The next question, an anthropological one, would be, why is the Hebrew origin story different? Why would they edit other legends so much? What is the function? In order to figure out who borrowed from whom (or, if any borrowing occurred), you have to figure out why one story is different from another.
And ‘knowledge of good and evil’ has nothing to do with sex. That Hebrew word for “knowledge” means: a) knowledge, perception, skill; b) discernment, understanding, wisdom. No sexual connotations, which makes it depart a bit from the Sumerian legends of the plants associated with sexuality.
I considered the idea that they all had a common source, but if you look at the actual details, at the content of the stories, the further back you go, the more they change. The stories become less and less like Genesis as you go back. The creator has a wife, the forbidden fruit becomes a sea weed, there are multiple gods, etc. If they all came from a common source, you’d expect the opposite.
And as to ‘knowledge of good and evil’, “know” is used very clearly in Genesis to mean sex:
Genesis 4:25 “And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth.”
Genesis 4:17
“And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he built a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.” – link
The word “yada” was used sometimes euphemistically for sex. One of the meanings is “to reveal oneself” as in showing your junk … and then using your junk … and then begetting sons and daughters.
Go forth, and know your bible.
I think xeno’s right about the sex thing . It’s pretty clear that it was the knowledge of sex ,that was what started the whole expulsion thing. I mean they covered themselves in disgrace ! Xeno why did you leave out Lilith ?
On the other hand what HopeF said would have to be addressed in full if one is to fully research this . Sounds like Xeno has 😉 I was aware of the issue but hadn’t worked on that angle yet , others have obviously . So far I’m with Xeno on this though . He stated it well .
But there are some stories that do seem to go back to a factual source . The flood seems to be based on fact but changed through time and religious source . Saying they didn’t borrow might be splitting hairs . But maybe we shouldn’t say borrowed ? Derived ? To be more fair .
Interesting post! I studied stuff like this in college, and while not a lot is fresh in my mind right now to add to the discussion, I do know that “creation myths” can be found all around the world, and though some are similar with common sources (as pointed out here) some are not. Zeus and Leda and a big egg come to mind. There’s one in Africa about the human race being born out of a log..I forget the details. Mircea Eliade is an author who did a lot of work in this area. In case you’re interested 🙂
Yes, too bad the three big religions you mentioned don’t seem to discuss openly their common ancestry so much. Probably scholars and others are quite aware of it just like some people are well aware of the origins of the Christmas tree and eggs and bunnies at Easter etc, but it’s just not relevant to their beliefs, I suppose.
Thanks for the tip ” Mircea Eliade” I’ll check that out ! I think as far as creation myths legends etc.. It is natural for mankind to wonder ” Where did we come from ? ” It is also natural for people to make things up 😉 Or even try to explain it to themselves or others through symbolism , representations and story . Other stories are based on actual events . One thing is clear is when people try to repeat what they saw or heard it becomes distorted . Even if they know what they saw . They put in their preconceptions and opinions and misunderstandings . No one is an accurate witness . This has been proven in criminal research . Witnesses are unreliable . Let alone a story passed down through centuries . A story passed from one person to the other in a circle often comes out the other side unrecognizable to the original story teller 😉 People general don’t want the mixed up origins about their spiritual beliefs. Changing the story is considered an assault to their soul ! Whether it is true or not . Religion doesn’t leave much room for an open mind ( as far as religious beliefs ) Once one believes something they resist changing that belief , religious or otherwise .
From what I understand about Mircea Eliade writings is . He felt that religion was a truth of human kinds existence . That religion is human kinds search for ” why are we here ? ” “what is life ?”etc.. Religion not only being the answer but being the only truth by it’s very nature . That myth some how always comes from some primordial reality . That the answer to all questions is the primordial root of myths . Religious experience from the original source . Where the origins of myth came from ;-/ I can understand where he’s coming from just not interested in where he’s going 😉 It does bring up some interesting notions though . But I think he way over reached . Not really the angle I was going for . He basically puts religion and myth above all other thought . In fact implies it is the only thought that matters . This implies an atheist or an agnostic are an unimportant misguided ball of fluff ! And that the religious are in tune with some sort of primordial , supernatural supremacy ! Tapping into the knowledge of the universe ! Wow what an extra special , highly functioning people we are surrounded by 😉 Who knew ? Apparently Mircea Eliade ! Who by association has arisen as the enlightened one 😉 Not that the core of what he was saying didn’t have merit . I just think he grabbed the ball ran with it and didn’t know when to stop to make the touch down ! 😉
Since the 1850s some Phd scholars have proposed that the Garden of Eden’s origins lie in recast Sumerian and Babylonian Myths. Recast in such a way as to _refute_ the Babylonian ideas about how man came to be created, denied knowledge like a god (as noted by Eden’s Serpent) and denied immortality. My website explores all this. I also have published two books on the subject available at Amazon.com (1) Eden’s Serpent: Its Mesopotamian Origins, (2) The Garden of Eden Myth: Its Pre-biblical Origin in Mesopotamian Myths.